Hello everyone. I said I'd start contributing to the forum again as I settle back into my hobbies. Well, I guess this is as good a place to start as any. This is of course regarding the Atari Jaguar console and it's version of Doom. I believe I had mentioned a couple years back that I'm involved with a secret group of developers and testers that are staying hidden from and separate from the Atari Age and other main-stream Jaguar forums due to the resident assholes and trolls that have all but ruined the community and make it hard as they can for any new developers or ideas to emerge. They basically run everyone off. This group and those whom they have in their pocket, anyone who visits Jaguar forum on AA knows what I'm talking about. Anyway myself an my group are those who don't use those forums anymore, but have been working behind the scenes. I think when I first mentioned this it was in regards to an Alien vs Predator remake for the Jaguar. But that's not all we are doing. Long story short, I am attaching a couple of Jaguar rom files for use with an Atari Flash cartridge, Skunkboard or the newer Game Drive, or make your own cart. Certain people who are Jaguar forum regulars have been talking about their work on a redone Doom port for many years, teasing the public, but keeping it all closely guarded, I can only guess, because they haven't figured out how to make money off of it yet since Doom sources are freely available by ID, as long as all work derived is also released free. We have grown sick of the Jaguar community situation where a few hold the community in a development strangled hold. So my group has started working on our own Doom remake, currently titled JagDoom EXtended. I am able to finally release some of our work in progress as it is being released all over the net, including Github and other places, but spies are deeply intrenched for the others and are taking the stuff down so we keep putting it up in different places. There is full source code and all that other development stuff available and I can provide links, but this post is just about rom images for any hear that may own a Jaguar and the needed device to load rom images. The first is a spectre version that has...well I'll just post a couple of pictures to show instead of explain. But also, these versions of Doom have been control remapped for the Jaguar Pro controller so that the left and right shoulder buttons work for strafing, allowing circle strafing. The keypad is remapped as follows: 1) fist/pistol, 2) move forward* 3) shotgun, 4)strafe left, 5) move back*, 6)strafe right, 7) machine gun, 8) rocket launcher, 9) plazma rifle, *) chainsaw, 0) BFGun, #) map. *2 and 5 are for forward and back movement when used in conjunction with the new mouse control using PS/1, Amiga or ST mouse with adapter. The EX version below has a first attempt at Ghost Demons which is only partially successful atm. The EX_1 version has spectre demons that glow and green-blue color. Music will be added in-game soon, though we are doing a new stereo sound engine (current one is mono and SFX or MSX cut each other out if music is turned on) so SFX and MFX can be on at the same time. Much more to come, this is just the beginning, but with us, the public can be in on it every step of the way for this Doom project from here on out. Pictures of Demons in both versions, first will stay as a unique demon in our remake, the second will be fixed to be fully transparent and also remain in-game. But much more to come...
Wow - formidable work in progress there, Matt. I take my hat off to you and the other Jag development guys and such a shame you have to face such wilful sabotage from so-called Atari fans who try to disrupt all the good work you fellas are trying to achieve. The (enhanced) version you are working on looks a very neat damn near perfect recreation of the original PC game's graphics - and some - and I for one will always be wowed by Doom so here's hoping your release, Jag Doom Extended, when it comes, has a similar impact on Jag fans. I'm thinking it will create quite a stir so continued good luck and stunning success with it all.
What you see there is 99.9% ID software and John Carmack's work from the original Jaguar Doom (which, by the way, was the version ported to the Sega 32x/Saturn, PSX, 3DO, SNES, Game Boy Advance). All we have done so far is change how one can control the game and some funky effects with Doom Pink Demons. And we are still a long way from anything major, like the other people doing the Jaguar Doom "Slayer" edition have done, if their pics and videos are to be believed since nothing has been released to any but within their close congregation. But our next update will have music and sound effects, minimum, in-game as well (originally music on Jag version was only on menu screens and not in-game like other versions-blame it on Atari rushing everyone to get things done). Hopefully I'm not over-stepping in telling this, but if any of you know anything about the 32X Doom "remake" then I can tell you the main programmer from it is one of the main programmers in our group and the one directly working on the meat of this one while others are on other projects. These guys programming skills are state-of-the-art professionals that compared the development guys in control over on AA Jag forum, what they do is child's play. The rom for the completely finished and redone Doom on the 32X is also available for free, and currently, puts any efforts done with improving Doom on the Jag, even the original Jaguar version it was ported from, to total shame. video below, links to rom in the video's links. The goal is to do everything for the Jaguar version of Doom that was done for the 32X/SegaCD Resurrection/Fuzion releases with JagDoomEX cartridge rom and CD rom releases. The new top end for cartridge roms, that the Jag could always have had, but Atari was to cheap, are 6MB rom images, as opposed to the commercial Atari release limit of 4MB carts. Skunkboard, IIRC, V3+ have a 6MB option and the Game Drive supports 6MB cart rom images and CD rom images. And, of course, CD images could always be as large as 790MB, though the largest Atari CD release was some where between 300-500MB, off the top of my head. The original Jaguar Doom cartridge is of course only 4MB. And we have far superior compression techniques now.
Hello lads, I've been busy with life again and doing a lot of JagDoom EX testing. I have a couple of different update roms for those interested, please feel free to spread them around, Chilly Willy wants to get the word and roms out to as many as possible, bypassing the Main-Stream-Jag forums that aren't under the iron fist of Reboot and friends, attempting to keep any Doom efforts on the Jag down in anyway possible until they figure out how to make money off of what is quickly becoming an inferior un-released update. I have two roms here, one is JagDoom EX v12, with some fixed and expanded Doom 1 levels, more accurate versions of levels than the original cut down versions on the original JagDoom by ID. Plus the control scheme changes and everything from before, and other minor modifications and bug fixes. The second rom is Chilly Willy's JagDoom EX with the AC2011 Doom II levels in it with all other updates as v12. If you were unaware of the Doom II hacks for the Jaguar, well, now you have the best version out there of them. I'm told the next update will start to include the all new levels and graphics of Chilly Willy's Sega 32X Doom as seen in video links above, as well as the stereo music and sound engine from that version added and a couple of the missing bosses from the original JagDoom, the Cyber Demons and the Spider Demons as well as mouse control. He is also pushing to get the game resolution upto 320 h-pixels from the original 160 h-pixels for the best looking Doom yet on the Jag and this will lead to a split screen co-op and deathmatch modes, so two people can play on one console, You'll still need at least two consoles for 4 player-multi...for now...
By the way, the title is just a working name, and similar to the 32X Resurrection and CD32X Fusion or Ultimate Doom 32X, the JagDoom EX will probably be named similarly, with both 4-6MB cartridge versions and CD/JGD CD emulation versions too. And the Doom II V12 rom I posted only goes up to level 12, so if you use cheats...don't go past level 12. It will just crash and need a reboot. Cheats: Level Pause game, hold down number key 1-9 while un-pausing to load respective levels. Level 10-19 hold A button plus 0-9 number pad key while un-pausing, level 20-24 pause, hold button B plus key 0-4 and un-pause) . weapons & ammo & keys For full weapons and all keys PAUSE, then hold down hashtag key while un-pausing Invincibility Pause, hold down asterisk key while un-pausing
One last note: Again, these roms can be used with a jaguar emulator Like BigPMulator or whatever it's called, or on real hardware using a Skunkboard or Jaguar Game Drive or make your own cartridge. So everyone can give them a try through emulation.
I will have to use my Jag emulator to give this a spin as I no longer have my PAL Jag and getting a new one is just too expensive these days. It's very depressing reading some of the posts on Atari Age these days. There are some great really helpful guys on there but there are also some total knobheads. I don't go there much and very rarely look at the Jag section, the Lynx group don't seem to be plagued with that problem. I remember the sh1tshow around Prince of Persia on the XL/XE that wasn't pleasant either. It's just sad, but you have definitely done the right thing to go off and work on your project outside of that forum. You shouldn't need their approval or support to work on a project and all this working to shut down the project just shows how petty and nasty they are. So keep pressing on and eff 'em.
I love Atari Age, I'm an active member going on 23-24 years now. But I left the Jaguar forum a while ago due to the knuckleheads there. 5 or 10 years ago now. My only Jaguar interaction on AA now is just the private development forum I'm in with Chilly Willy. This group is currently working on multiple projects, with several lead programmers working on individual projects but help and contribute to each other. Chilly Willy is just one of the lead programmers and he is also the only one that is currently ready to start sharing and open to the Jaguar community with his Doom project, now that he's established himself as a master programmer with what he did for 32X Doom. I'm only a tester on his Doom project. I'm an artist on the Jaguar Alien vs Predator "redux" as well as a tester. But I've only shared the AvP project here on this forum so far, waiting for the lead man to make his move on all that, and honestly, I've know idea how far along he is, I've yet to get any alphas or Betas from him to test, but I know he's got more than one on-going project too.
Just released for your enjoyment, several of the songs that will be put into JagDoom EX, hopefully with the next revision release. Just load this as any .bin file in a Jag emulator or on the Game Drive,etc.
My mistake boys, these music .bin files are meant for Genesis/32X emulators and systems, so you'll need them to hear, he was just posting them in the group forum because it will sound the same when implemented on the Jaguar. But the new sound engine is still being ported.
I'm liking the Doom 2 port Matt, you have all done a great job. I know Carmack programmed the Jaguar port so the base code should be pretty decent. It's a shame he vetoed a Saturn port that took advantage of it's two CPU's and it ended up with a version worse than the Jag. I know he regretted the decision in hindsight but hey,ho. Really interested in the AvP redux as well as it was one of my favorite games so looking forward to that.
Even the Jaguar version didn't use the 5 processors to full advantage and relied heavily on the 68000. Carmack port the C+ PC version over to the Jaguar and had to dumb it down from the original, beyond taking advantage of the Jaguar's dynamic lighting and shading which made it look better that other console versions. Carmack said that if he had the time and budget (which he didn't get from Atari) he could have rewritten all the code in native Jaguar assembly, take advantage of all it's processors and have the frame rate and resolution doubled, plus a lot less cut out if he could have used a full 6MB cartridge, or better yet, if Atari had the Jaguar CD unit released as scheduled, the on a CD. Chilly Willy, like he did with the 32X versions, intends to do just that and more, like two player split screen and still be able to connect two consoles for 4-player action. The 32X CD version and maybe even the cart versions already blow the PSX version out of the water too. But as you said, the Carmack base game can still be improved and converted to assembly using the Jaguar's processors to full advantage, and with what we know now about the Jaguar and what it can do, compared to Carmack who didn't have the software and hardware tools of today and full inner-working knowledge of the Jaguar, so we now know how to make all the improvements without having to rewrite the code from the ground up, but just converting to assembly with software and A.I. and moving most of the code to all the custom processor properly. The 32X Doom Chilly Willy started with is originally ported from the Jaguar code anyway, the Saturn and PSX version as well, but it got the bigger budget and time to expand it beyond the Jaguar version and get many of those improvements from the start, instead of 30 years later.(even the Gameboy Advance Doom is ported from the Jaguar version) I believe Chilly Willy intends to definitely do all the Ultimate Doom levels witch are the first three Doom iterations combined. I think there was Doom 1 and 2 and then a Doom sequel that came long before Doom 3 on the original Xbox, or maybe it was 1 & 2 and then just more new levels on top to classify it at Ultimate Doom. I have it for the PC, but I haven't played PC games for decades, so I don't recall what all is on it. Anyway, the two videos above say what is included in the two Genesis 32X and Sega CD 32X games. I remember the video saying one of the versions had upwards of 70+ levels. I don't know if a 4MB Jag rom can hold more than 24 levels currently available, But I think that's the limit. Considering it's probably 1 to 1-1\2 megabytes for the game engine and sound engine and AI engine and sprites, would mean 2-1\2 to 3 megabytes rom left for levels, so a 6 megabyte cart could probably hold about 40-50 levels, and of course a CD version with a possible 790 megabytes, so everything the Sega CD 32x version and room for more.
I mentioned A.I. in the third paragraph from the top regarding improving Carmack's work. But I feel it needs to be pointed out how much more dramatic a difference having the help of A.I. has been. I'm not talking about ChatGPT or any other standard A.I., but we are actually using the next-gen A.I. DeepThink, and this A.I. has discovered ways to get around Jaguar hardware Bugs with code, and stream-line condense code and has found ways around hardware bugs that upto this point hadn't been solved or thought possible to find work arounds, but DeepThink can study the hardware and software in a matter of minutes what it would people years or decades of dedicated study and research to discover, which of course nobody is going to do for a 30 year old console that was a failure. But DeepThink has helped big time. Now not everything is perfect, Chilly Willy still has to make sure the new A.I. written code has no bugs, and this is not even moving it over to the custom processors yet. But DeepThink can look up everything on the Jaguar's hardware and development tools and code from the last 30 years. It's still far from doing everything just by asking, ultimately this all still takes a lot of hard work manually porting and coding, but the A.I.'s help has been invaluable to our coders, something vastly better than other previous A.I. for debugging issues and workarounds when they hit a wall, saving months or years, or even ever, with implementing new stuff and making old stuff more efficient and now alternative options with hardware bug work arounds that are literally game changing, that weren't available even less than a year ago.
Like you said earlier and I know it's probably not gonna happen, but a Jag CD version could hold all the levels on one CD-ROM like the PS1 version and maybe if there is the appetite Final Doom??. I had never come across using AI to help coding but I guess it makes sense. Using a computers computational power to speed up development. It was something that was never available back during the Jaguars commercial lifespan, people had to code by hand back then, probably explains why so many games were mediocre Amiga style titles that didn't use the power of the Jaguar properly. My Jaguar games that I played all the time were AvP, Tempest2K, Skyhammer and Iron Soldier. I was really into 3D games back then after spending 15 years in 2D land prior to the Jaguar launch. It was why I hopped over to the 3DO when the Jaguar was fading. I never managed to get a CD drive back then and my Jaguar setup was sold in the 90's to pay for my Sega Dreamcast. I regret it now, but at the time it was sat in a wardrobe and never used and Atari seemed done and I was looking forward. I didn't get to the position now where I appreciate older kit until much later and by then a fair bit had been sold.
I also got a 3DO when the Jaguar was fading, but the 3DO went belly up at the same time, it just happened to have gotten about 150 games by then while the Jaguar had half that (including CD titles), but between the two, there was a library large enough to keep me happy right through the PS1 and Saturn and I didn't feel the need for something more until the Dreamcast was released, and I enjoyed several years collecting Jaguar and 3DO games for dirt cheap from the bargain bins.
Gentlemen, apparently I completely misunderstood the situation regarding this project and the roms. I have been chastised by people over there for talking about any of this and posting roms over hear regarding this project. I left a post telling them exactly what I had done over here with this thread thinking I was doing what they wanted, which is the way I got myself in trouble. I managed to misunderstand a lot of things in private conversations and misunderstood what was being said so completely that I thought help in sharing the roms and news about the project was what they wanted, but this was completely false and wrong on my part. I've never been shocked and devastated on so completely misunderstanding what I thought was the right thing and trying being helpful when in fact it is all supposed to have still remained private and secret. I ask the forum moderators or administrator to please remove this entire subject from the forum boards please.
Sorry to hear Matt, I don't think it hit much traction on here, so should not have done any lasting damage. An email to Tim would be best..
We know you are entirely sincere and are seen as a guy with complete integrity when acting / working on behalf of the retro computing and gaming communities, Matt. You are a force for good and promote all projects in a positive light. As Paul suggests, I can't see any harm coming from what you have mentioned here and Tim should remove this post for you ASAP to prevent any perceived problems arising. You are 100% solid gold, Matt. Keep up the great work, fella, fostering nothing but good in our computing communities.
