1. Not old. Vintage. :)

Marvel Super hero films, good or bad for the film world?

Discussion in 'SIG: Books and Movies' started by Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine, Feb 20, 2023.

  1. by Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine
    Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine

    Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine Captain

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    Righty, I'm a mad comic head, I was till a few years ago reading just about anything Marvel or DC put out, I was also a huge collector of comics till my mid 20's. I have to admit I stopped reading comics because they had ran out of idea's and often (as still happens) basically were telling the same story on both big platforms, if one had a Secret War, the other had a galactic war etc etc. Also, they started to try and make them more real word with issues of the times being fed in to the stories but never explaining why with real world facial recognition everywhere, not one camera ever saw that Clark Kent was Superman and his identity covered by glasses.

    But then a little film called Blade came out, it was the story about a super powered 'daywalker', a person bitten by a vampire but never fully turning, instead he got all their powers with none of their weaknesses. This cheap Marvel made film was a sleeper hit, it also opened the way for Marvel to get into the film business as a proper studio of its own, rather than getting other studios to make their films. Soon Marvel stopped using people like Newline and were doing all the films themselves.

    They had some bumps along the way, but eventually Marvel became a force to be reckoned with. People like me were reconnected to comics because with the big budget and the new tech we really could make stunning films, the nearest we ever came back in the 70s and 80's was Superman, it used Zoran Persic's new back projection tech and introduced hidden wire removal tech, with each wire holding Chris Reeve up, painstakingly removed, a process that required the wire work to make him fly be as neat as possible, so when Chris landed as Superman they had to try and make sure the wires stayed tight upon landing, or it would make the removal of said wire harder if it sagged.

    These days we have the tech to make these superheroes act like they did in the comics, Spider-man could swing through New York with you on his shoulder, Iron Man and the Hulk could battle it out, levelling skyscrapers to almost photorealistic quality. Whole cities could be destroyed without the need to build sets.

    Now we are spoilt by it, but has it hurt the 'real' world of films. Stuff where they do make sets, do photograph on real streets without adding people in via CGI or blue screen. One of my fave films is Blackhawk Down, yes there's CG trickery at points (the fires all over what is meant to be Somali) but in general it's real people running along real streets with lots of practical effects. it's mostly old school. Some say these Marvel and DC films have made the industry in to a more for kids environment, with films not being 'serious' any more.

    For me, I can live with both serious and good old popcorn stuff, sometimes I want to be taken to a place that does not exist and does not have the same issues I deal with day to day, but I also like something I CAN relate directly to.
     
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  2. by nysavant
    nysavant

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    You would probably be hard pushed to find just about any film nowadays that doesn't have some level of CGI in it probably.

    I am a bit tired with all the superhero reboots and stuff. Plus the storylines are all pretty much the same climaxing in a big battle to end all battles (until the next time that is).

    De-aging is another thing I really struggle with at times. Just doesn't feel right somehow and I always end up looking for flaws in the process!

    Or perhaps it is just a sign of me getting older and my tastes changing that two of my favourite films in the last while have been Banshees of Inisherin, and Empire of Light.
     
  3. by Vyper68
    Vyper68

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    These modern sets where it’s a giant wraparound oled display around the actors for a cgi set rather than real physical sets look naff. The reliance on cgi these days isn’t great either and some of the cgi these days seems worse than the older work. Take She-Hulk for example, they say it’s because the effects teams are overwhelmed with work but still, it ended up being a laughing stock on YouTube.
     
  4. by Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine
    Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine

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    I have a huge interest in visual effects, I've studied it most of my adult life and almost ended up working in it, so I watch films and strip away the poor effects for my own amusement. She Hulk was a mixed bag, the initial stuff on YT suffered from the YT compression issues but were also unfinished, a rather novice mistake by Marvel to show them in that state when promoting a show. For me, they was some good stuff but a lot of not so good stuff. The reason, Marvel itself, many VFX houses now refuse to work with Marvel because of high pressure working conditions, poor pay and simply, their attitude to the VFX house. This has lead Marvel to try and create their own in house VFX crew but from what I understand it's not going well as no one really likes the idea of being trapped on the inside with them. (told you that I'm a VFX geek). One of Marvels biggest mistakes is to advertise a release date while the VFX teams are working still, it just forces them to cut corners.

    And yes, VFX / CGI is everywhere these days, there's an old advert for chewy mints where a guy takes the top off and drops two mints into his hand which land perfectly, the mints, yep, cgi..Very very easy shot. The major problem for CGI based stuff is that when we look at a giant spaceship blasting the hell out of a famous part of the world, there's already the brain saying "this is CG" as neither of these things are possible to really do, CGI works best when we don't know it's been used, the mint thing being an example of this(it's normally just sad people like me who spot it).

    Me, I still love the old school model work, like the giant Star Destroyer at the very start of Star Wars, lovingly built and looks superb, sadly the choice is now to CGI them, I can understand why, working on models with grain of wheat bulbs and threading fibre optics for lights is very time-consuming, as it the entire build, where a decent CGI modeller can knock up a fairly decent 3D model in a couple of days, and there's the flexibility of CGI, you can do the impossible stuff that real world modellers cannot make easily. Also, there's no giant rigs to shoot the models from, it's all inside the farm of PC's.

    When I watch a mega CGI fest, I watch it with 2 notions, is the FX good and does it help the film. I still enjoy a well done film but I need to be taken in by it, just throwing cg at the screen isn't enough.

    As for one of the two films you mentioned, Al, I like Brendan Gleeson, he's a class actor and versatile, loved him in 28 Days Later, his comedic cop in Lake Placid and the more serious stuff like that film which won a load of Bafta's. Not such a fan of Colin Farrell, he can act but his choices are a bit hit and miss, Bullseye in Daredevil was just silly, his Total Recall part was a mess, both probably not his fault but it felt like he did them just for a payday. Interested to see him in the Penguin series, looks like a mob style piece rather than the Danny DeVito comic based version.

    As mentioned, there's CG in a lot of TV and film work, but it's nice to see that people can spot it as poor in some cases. In real world stuff you really should not see it ie rather than burn a real house down, use good CGI and move on, don't dwell on it.
     
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  5. by Vyper68
    Vyper68

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    I think the art of model making for vfx is a dying art but it’s a real shame. I once built a Colonial Viper from the OG Battlestar Galactica. I used it to try my hand at basic vfx at college back in the 80’s as it was one of my dreams to work in film, sadly never came off.
     
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  6. by Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine
    Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine

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    I was offered a job but I think the guy thought that because I worked in an electronics shop that my electronics would be good, he was still ok about it when I told him but I'd just got married and it involved a lot of travelling as he was working on some big films, Greystoke, Highlander etc..

    In the end I made the right choice.. Probably would have killed my marriage and then there would have been no Serena...Glad I turned it down.

    I built and lit a Cyclon (sp?) fighter..Was ok but it was from a model kit so not really my work bar the lighting.
     
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