1. Not old. Vintage. :)

What's new Pussycat too?

Discussion in 'SIG: General Chat' started by M.D.Baker, May 4, 2020.

  1. by M.D.Baker
    M.D.Baker

    M.D.Baker Deckhand

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    One of the longest and most entertaining threads from A.S. brought here in sequel.

    Bob Woolley from Atari Age has been thinning his collection lately, and I'm buying (they already arrived, now I have to pay!) a couple of the SOLD OUT* Flip-n-File cart/disk/tape cases like the two I already owned, also one of each that I couldn't get anymore from *Best Electronics.

    What is especially cool about the cartridge Flip-n-File is that it's a later model designed for Atari and C64 carts, which means my SDX and The Rescue Expedition carts which use C64 cart shells, also fit! As do my Gorf and Secretum Labirynth carts that didn't fit in my original Atari FnF cart case.

    With a holder spot for all of my cartridges now, including the over-sized ones, I am left with exactly four more cart holder spots to fill.
    20200504_143843.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
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  2. by Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine
    Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine

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    Not seen flip n files for ages....We sold those and they went like hot cakes..
     
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  3. by M.D.Baker
    M.D.Baker

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    While not new to me, I have a new sound system to go with my 800's stereo Pokey upgrade in my Bose Wave radio I pulled out of storage and cleaned up today.I was forced to move my Flip-n-File's to another shelf to make room for the Bose radio, but the spot seems to be made for it.

    20200505_233350.jpg
     
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  4. by Timothy Kline
    Timothy Kline

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    I adopted this a few weeks ago. There was another one from another seller for a while after, on EBay— not sure whether it's still around or not for anyone that might be interested.

    --Tim

    20200506_065031.jpg Mosaic Electronics Joystick Kit (rear).jpg
     
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  5. by M.D.Baker
    M.D.Baker

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    @Timothy Kline, is that the Mosiac 64K board for the 800? Or is that an 80 column card maybe, with the cable and whatnot? Wait...I make out "for use with controller jacks" there...just what the hell is that Tim?!?

    Before I got the Incognito, I was half-way through hacking a 16K ram module into a Mosiac 64 compatible using schematics by Claus Bucholz. Along with Axlon 128/256K boards I was going to hack from a second 16K board. I mainly was curious as to how many games designated for 64K XL/XE systems actually fit in the 52K continuous memory of the Mosiac board. Though, IIRC, there may have been an issue with both needing slot 2 (0-3), but maybe the Axlon works in slot 3 as well...? The plan was to have both boards, if possible, with a full 320K memory on-board with 52K direct access.

    The 800's architecture is so fascinating, I've only really been learning and discoverying it all since you gave me the 800, Tim.

    But the re-release of the Incognito last fall changed all of that. I may do it some day, just for the hell of it, but I've several plates full of projects to finish first. But I think the Incognito, IIRC, does allow 52K of continuous ram in Colleen mode, so I still plan on testing my "64K" game theory; that not all of them are really 64K, but just require more than 48K, and there may be a few that fit into the 52K range and work with OS B.
     
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  6. by Timothy Kline
    Timothy Kline

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  7. by M.D.Baker
    M.D.Baker

    M.D.Baker Deckhand

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    Hell yeah.:cool:
     
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  8. by Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine
    Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine

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    Matt, calm down, you are getting Lockdown fever :)
     
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  9. by Graham
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    OOOOO back to the Dual or more PIA's
    Well I guess as a Hardware guy I need to help my fellow, Mates, Colleagues, and Friends
    Now who would be happy with writing the software side of things?
    I have just purchased on EBay an 800 and came with a 1050, in addition sold as non working

    They lied. Both work fine... [​IMG][​IMG]

    So I’ve a number of projects on the pile, I know Matt wants something he can play with for his robotic arm, Tim you seem to be in the same vein, (not sure about its use though) I’m happy to design a working second PIA board expansion, if I do what computers does it have to work in ?
    I’d guess 400/800 maybe 1200XL for Matt? Tim? What’s your choice (I'll add 400/800 different circuit required to the later models)
    I’d be happy to design for each computer, and up to a point the Schematic already exists but can be modified to suit, its board layout for each design.
    However I will complete the XEGS 1st as that was voted for, followed by O.S Controller cards
     
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  10. by Timothy Kline
    Timothy Kline

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    _________

    That's very kind and gracious of you, Graham.

    At this early of a stage, I'd settle just for the means to safely connect two Atari 8-bits via the second joystick port, and I can play around with the software side of things, including the bit-banging, via PEEKS and POKES and go up from there once I have a good feel for the process.

    A second PIA would allow the "network" to go full-speed/duplex, but like I said: I'd be more than happy with just the necessary connection via the joystick port. . . without frying either system, of course!

    --Tim
     
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  11. by Graham
    Graham

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    Hi Tim

    Well that of course possible, couple of things to point out, the joystick ports as you are aware can be made to work as inputs and outputs under software control down to bit level, the trick will be on deciding how to control this from two separate computers, ideally using the same program at each end, the only way to achieve this would be to cross over bit line between the two computers.

    One joystick port only give you 4 Bits via the PIA chip those being on PORTA bits 4-7 for Joystick 2 (Joy 1 uses 0-3)

    Of course the Trigger buttons could be used, but then that also means programming via POKEY.

    If we leave that (Pokey) to one side for the moment a way of working out the direction of transmission is required, thus losing 1 Bit in each direction, i.e. say Bit 6 signals to distant end it wants to SEND (high or low what ever suits), connect this to Bit 7 at the other end to let the other end know what’s happening, the reverse is true as the 2nd computer can signal ‘o.k.’ but pulsing its line 6 ( received on the 1st computer on bit 7, hence same program can be used.)

    Bits 4 & 5 can then send 4 x 2 Bits of data, to be reformed to one Byte, possibly signalling each 2 bits by pulsing the Bit 6 line.

    The connections would be:1

    End 1 1------ --3 End 2
    . 3---------1
    . 5---------7
    . 7---------5
    . 6---------6

    These allow :-
    End 1 End 2
    PIA PA4 to connect to PA5
    PIA PA5 to connect to PA4
    PIA PA6 to connect to PA7
    PIA PA7 to connect to PA6
    Common ground pin 6

    I can elabourate at some point with some Pokes and Peeks just need to check with something connected to the Joystick port to check.
    The good thing is that the O.S on boot makes everything safe to interconnect as sets all port lines as inputs so no clash of two port pins being driven high by something at the other end driven low.
    I'll have to check if any pull up or pull down resistor would be needed, certainly without additional driver chips being used, the distance should be kept fairly short maybe a metre for now.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
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  12. by M.D.Baker
    M.D.Baker

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    A PIA board would be fantastic, and yes, I would want one for the 800 and one for the 1200XL. I would definitely be adding more ports to the 1200XL, but for the 800, now with incognito, I probably wouldn't add more ports, but just re-use ports 3 and 4 with it while the 800 is in XL/XE mode, and when in 800 mode I should still be able ports 3 and 4 as designed if I want, or use the second PIA on ports 3 and 4 too, as long as I'm not trying to use the first PIA on ports 3 and 4 with the second on those ports. Or, if need be, throw in a dip switch.

    Schematics or purchasable boards from you, @Graham , works for me either way.
     
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  13. by M.D.Baker
    M.D.Baker

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    So with this, what I see is what I get? Just controller ports and cables? No PIA's in the package tucked away? No board under those cables in the box? I was about to purchase the one there, but it's about $20 with shipping and I could probably just salvage controller ports from elsewhere and I have plenty of wiring, even if it's not ribbons. I have two ports on my salvage 600XL for starters...so I'm basically making sure this is what I see in the picture only, which means I don't need to buy it.
     
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  14. by Timothy Kline
    Timothy Kline

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    _________

    A pretty accurate summation there, actually. I picked it up for the novelty of the item, quite honestly, although the first thing I see when I look at it is the dual-PIA ribbon cable, etc. Not that I'd use it for that, but it helped me decide to adopt it. Like you, I have a sufficient number of parts here that I could harvest the ports, etc. Not that I enjoy de-soldering. o_O

    So yeah, the Mosaic kit is actually with my other novelty boxed items, such as this one... ;)

    --Tim

    Atari Footpedal (1400px).jpg
     
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  15. by Graham
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    Hi Matt something to check when in 800XL mode, I think the O.S is still using Port B that are used on Joysticks 3&4 in 800 mode. (as you did say)
    However I know this is 'emulated' within incogneto as such but not sure if you can access the PIA PortB as a certain lines used to control memory mapping for the XL. thus the O.S resets them back to the values in the shadow registers in the O.S.

    I guess its something to check, likewise I'm not sure what will happen with a U1MB board installed, it may stop access directly to the hardware, as the memory is now on the U1MB so emulates portB the same way as incogneto.
    I'll get round to it and see what happens.
    Was it the 400 you were going to use as the animated Arm controller , seem to remember you mentioning this on A.S

    Re boards, I can either make something and send it over of add to OSH Park or similar for you to make, this maybe a cheaper way for you. But lets see where we get to first.
     
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  16. by Graham
    Graham

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    Hi Tim

    I've seen those for hook up to a PC but I guess anything is possiable if you have the software Pole Position maybe ??
     
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  17. by Timothy Kline
    Timothy Kline

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    _________

    Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing the pedals used for some sort of Atari 8-bit version of Rock Band, handling the kick drums, for example. :)

    Someday, but not today. :D

    --Tim
     
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  18. by Graham
    Graham

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    :):):) Go for it !
     
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  19. by M.D.Baker
    M.D.Baker

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    I'm not considering using port B in XL/XE mode with the 800, I'm talking about the physical port connectors 3 and 4; tied into the second PIA to use in XL/XE mode, have a dip-switch probably to disconnect ports 3 and 4 from Port B, physically, in XL/XE mode (though I would imagine that Incognito deactivates controller ports 3 and 4 in XL/XE mode, so I may not have to use a dip-switch) and have them tied into the second PIA when the dip-switches are changed. That way I might not need to add in more ports on the 800 for the second PIA, just on my 1200XL, unless I decide I need 6 or more ports for the dual-PIA's and my robot.

    As to the 400 being used, that later in the process. This is a project about learning to program my Atari, to program a robot, starting with just the arm, using an old Analog magazine robot arm article as a starting point. I will use my 3 AtariLab Interfaces, along with more I make myself, to first connect the robot arm to the Atari through 4 or more joystick ports. Learn to program it, etc. After that, the next step will be to take that robot arm, robot tracks, and a DIY torso with a 400 inside it, and the robot will be directly connected to the 400's 4 (or more) controller ports to use the tracks, arm and sensors to move around and interact via programs on the 400 inside it, with a The!Cart or something on the 400 for storage, the membrane keyboard will still be there, on the robot too.

    But the extra PIA's and ports will be used for other projects too, as will the AtariLab Interfaces, they are just an easy plug-in I/O system for controlling exterior devices, at least in the prototyping stages. Having fun making use of the Atarilab Interfaces with more than two simple cartridge programs and a couple of sensors. Like would have been expanded upon if the software series had been successful, and beyond for my part.
     
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  20. by M.D.Baker
    M.D.Baker

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    Here is my latest purchase; just a small 20 piece 74HCXX chip set. I need some 74HC14's for my Pokey stereo upgrades, as I mentioned in my hardware mods blog in the 800 part. But of course one or two IC's will cost half the price of a set like this anyway, so I figure I might as well get my monies worth, they are all commonly used 74LS/HC IC's. I still have a set of about a 100, but no more 74LS/HC14's.

    20200513_122244.jpg 20200513_122231.jpg
     
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  21. by Graham
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    Hi Matt
    Always a good move to have spare logic chips available. You do need to be careful about what you are buying from China though, as I've found to my cost, I recently purchased 10x Samsung KM62256 SRAM chips, it was a resonable price. anyway they arrived a month or so later, I didn't check them at the time, getting to the point they all fuction, as memory chips but not at the speed I had ordered, closer inspection reveal they all had Identical date and Fab markings, but the actual chips themselves were of 4 diffrent package types, none of which Samsung would ever have used. I did 'clean' one chip up, the original marking had been ground away, and a painted layer with it new makers identification added ..
    A little investigation revealed this, as an example :-


    Thankfully due to all the experiments I used to do many years ago, I still have a load, of older LS Logic, but I of course do buy new for the faster items like 74'F' series chips.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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  22. by M.D.Baker
    M.D.Baker

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    A bit of lost-and-found here, I was digging through some more of my storage containers today, out in the shed, and I found an old plasma ball. A RadioShack model. I'm one step closer to my nik-nak workstation's complete decor. I also added in top shelf LED's, so all shelves on the left side are lit now, I have another set that will be replacing the puck lighting on my right side corner shelves too. The last two items I want that I still need to get are a good globe of the earth and a Tesla coil. Then my "mad-scientist" nik-nak's will be complete. I also have a couple small nik-naks my brother gave me, a "snow-globe" volcano and an oil-bubble thingy, as seen in the second picture on either side of my moon globe.

    20200517_111738.jpg

    20200517_113001.jpg
     
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  23. by M.D.Baker
    M.D.Baker

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    I've been changing out all my 74LS chips for faster and lower power consumption 74HC chips due to all the upgrades and mods I add which puts more load on the systems and possibilities of over resistance and capacitance, and faster helps with all the extra wiring and circuits to maintain proper timing and PHI2 issues that can crop up. Luckily some of my upgrades also create their own PHI2 signals to help stabilize everything too. But I still have 74LS's for back-ups in a pinch.Though I also make sure I have PSU's with the highest amperage too.

    I think it's probably safer to buy small logic chips from China, like 74's, I suspect that most of the counterfitting and fake chips are done with more expensive IC's.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  24. by M.D.Baker
    M.D.Baker

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    My government stimulus came through, so obviously they are catching up or the stories of being months behind on sending these out are greatly exaggerated, since I was late in applying and hadn't payed income taxes in a few years (no steady income to do so) and should have been on the bottom of the list. So, the first thing I did was order a few items for my Atari workstation area that I've been wanting. Though I have to wait for them to be shipped, I thought I'd share with links to my Amazon orders. My new office chair and earth globe should arrive in a week or less. Just doing my part in getting our economy rolling again! :)

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LXXM5EK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BN1G7KQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
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  25. by Timothy Kline
    Timothy Kline

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    ________

    The raised relief will be amazing on that globe! And wayyyy nicer than the one I have here. Now if I could figure out where to hang my infinity light... :cigar:

    I keep wanting to install LED lighting strips in my Atari showcase, but there always seems to be something else that needs done first. :sour:

    --Tim
    An Atari owner

    20190314_091910.jpg 20190314_091833.jpg
     
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