1. Not old. Vintage. :)

I'm going to build a WEFAX interface

Discussion in 'SIG: Atari 8-Bit Hardware' started by M.D.Baker, Jan 17, 2021.

  1. by Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine
    Paul "Mclaneinc" Irvine

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    Loving all the super tech people on here have / still work with, one of my lads at Maplin went on to work as an engineer for London Underground, Paul then one day gives me a call and invites me down to his station / work place to have a look around as I'd always wanted to see the backend of a tube station. I get there and Paul takes me through the nerve centre and then announces that I MUST see the Relay room. The way he said it sounded like it was the cream of the crop, the command centre or whatever, door opens and its just a room full of switching relays LOL..

    I said "oh its very impressive" and moved on...Apparently it IS a very important part of the station but I was expecting...er ...more :)

    But well done to my ex employee, done well for himself...

    But back on topic, I'm warming to the Fujinet, obviously its a long way off on my books and in truth I don't really need it but its sounding and looking quite interesting thanks to Matts footage etc.

    Currently my kit is covering all bases for which I'm very happy but I do like to look at all the stuff you guys build, the creativity is just so infectious (I use that work carefully). As I've said, most of it is beyond me from a tech POV, my electronics is just above nil, I know component orientation and values and can read a diagram to a certain level but in terms of circuit design, nope....The best I could do is build something that goes bang when I plug it in..

    So watching all you guys build and make is great fun..
     
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  2. by Graham
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    I certainly like the idea of the FUJI NET and watching the video's I thought I'd have a go at knocking one up from the bits and bob's I have around.
    As it turns out, Fuji Net is still evolving as they only just released ver 1.3's Hardware , and even had to correct that within a very short time, even though still shown as ver 1.3 that's for the boards in one place on github... and uses an ESP32
    Unfortunalty looking on AA, a different design based on its less powerful brother the ESP8266 and thats at ver 2.0
    I just wish that peeps actually talked to each other and put both varients in one place so you can choose what to build, one is really simple as you can buy most of it as a ready made module for a £5 and add very few external components the other you basically build up from small components.. the cp2102 chip is 4mm square and has 24 pins .. so 6 pins a side with spacing in 4 mm they chose to use tiny resistors and capacitors as well. 1mm x 0.5mm in the main. known as 0402. assuming you wish to build this from the supplied Gerbers to make an exact copy of course, and that would fit with there reproduced SIO connectors and so on.
    Personally I'm going to leave it a bit longer until they have stopped frigging about with the hardware, at that point I'll look to design my own boards that will fit with what I want to do.
    I.E. the more potent ESP32 with and external antenna if I fancy. it's unlikely to have a case designed or use the SIO plug / socket as It will be designed to go inside the computer not be plugged in.
    These are my choices. I'll wait and see, It seems a very odd that there are multiple github resorces for both hardware and software ..
    Meanwhile working on and expansion board to be driven by the additional PIA boards, that is until Fuji Net finally sorts itself out. Bit disappointed to be honest.
     
  3. by M.D.Baker
    M.D.Baker

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    Well, I've been using the 1.0 design I purchased from The Brewing Academy for a couple of weeks now, and it works great so far, with either Wi-Fi or Bluetooth (Bluetooth requires a patched OS, unless you have the Incognito (or probably U1MB which are basically the same) as the BT ability is built in to the Incognito firmware. If better upgrades are to come, I'll build the next one myself as you plan on doing @Graham. Of course the firmware for Incognito is constantly being improved and updated, but there is a very nice and simple to use flasher program (with debug mode) to reflash upgraded firmware with a USB cord from the PC to the Fujinet device, which I just did less than a week ago for the latest firmware.

    It can do so much and works great for everything I've tried so far, including running software remotely from TNFS sites around the world, it basically obsoletes SIO2PC and 1050toPC devices and is much easier to use. And just like SIO2PC you can use any combination of real hardware and all the virtual hardware it emulates: Drives, printers, 850 interface with R: and all legacy terminal programs work with it.

    The latest firmware adds all kinds of new N: device commands to SDX too and it works great with it too, from what I am told, I haven't explored it yet, but I already updated my SDX on Incognito for it. So I'm perfectly happy I jumped on the bandwagon already, though I didn't know anything about it really before I bought it except that I'd have wi-fi capability and they already have many two player games converted to play with a friend remotely, and I've been play the fantastic 8-bit slicks online game that previously required the no longer produced Dragoncart, that they converted for Fujinet. All at high speed divisor 0 SIO (that can be set to what ever divisor is needed) through your personal Fujinet web page were you can set up all kinds of virtual peripherals and much more, even set up a MIDI-maze game site to play with others instead of MIDI LAN networks.

    I just love it and am perfectly happy with it's current hardware state at 1.0 ESP32 version. And I can always upgrade it myself later if needed. It's not some buggy hardware or firmware that has constant issues, and any bugs that do come to light from users are being addressed straight away with the firmware. Most changes are enhancements to do even more. It just works! Well worth the $75 I spent on the 1.0 version with all the bells and whistle and a case that matches my 800 (or whatever variant you want to match your machine).

    And if exponential hardware improvements are made in the future, I'll build another for my 1200XL, since I now have a 3D printer to print my own case for it and SIO w/pass-thru port. I'll have far too many upgrades in my 1200XL by then to try and fit it internally, but it can remain plugged in, on or off and lets all your other hardware just work too.

    It gives priority to real hardware and only boots itself if there is no other D1: real or virtual already. I just keep drive one turned off when using it, but all my other drives and HDD CF card on Incognito work with it fine. Even though it has it's own HDD SD on board too, I can use both at the same time, Fujinet SD as D1: and my CF HDD with SpartaDOS I've normally have set as D5: anyway so I can still use D1:-D4: with real drives or other virtuals like SIO2SD or SDrivemax or even SIO2PC if I wanted, though those are on my 1200XL and I don't need them with Fujinet's own facilities.

    It's been working great for me, and my current Internet and wi-fi are over my smartphone hot-spot along with my PC and Xbox 360, and, of course, I can use it via Bluetooth with my smartphone and PC too. It does more than I ever expected or dreamed of before I got one and knew next to nothing about it, and it does it all fantastically, now.

    But I'm not trying to peer-pressure you into building or buying one now, @Graham I'd rather have you working on the dual PIA upgrade instead anyway!;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
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  4. by Graham
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    Hi Matt
    I wasn't having a go about Fuji Net and what it does as that's great, and it's being inproved all of the time.
    I was refering to what appears to be a split, Verion 2 you would expect to be that latest hardware (not firmware) revision, and this looks like this https://atariage.com/forums/topic/298720-fujinet-a-wip-sio-network-adapter-for-the-atari-8-bit/
    This is a Rev2 board and its associated NodeMCU:
    [​IMG]

    The brewing academy are selling these https://fujinet.online/

    [​IMG]

    The hardware for these is currently version 1.3 and was only modded 14 days ago.
    https://github.com/FujiNetWIFI/fujinet-hardware
    upload_2021-1-29_13-26-43.png
    and only just added a resistor 5 days ago.

    All I'm saying is that there appears some disparity between what the version numbers are and that the hardware is still being revised.
    I've had a good look at the schematics and they are not laid out very well. at some point I'll produce my own in KiCAD, so that I can build my own design of boards. They have released them in Diptrace, but I don't want to use yet another layout program, again purely a personal choice

    So all I'm am saying is that I'm personally disappointed, as 1
    , they don't lay it out in a program I use :(
    2. Hardware is still being changed, in fact only 5 days ago.:(
    3,The latest changes have added buffered SIO line's and also power off the buffers themselves to me from an electrical side, I'd be better off using the correct buffers in the first place that are what's known as Tri-state outputs and enable them or not when required, in this case the chip is still physically connected, just it's power turned off by two FET's.
    So I suspect that this may well be looked at again.
    I also don't see much in the way of protection from static via the USB port. something else that needs looking at as could possiably kill the cp2102 the tiny 4mm square chip with it's 24 legs not the easiest to replace.:(:(

    BUT HAVING SAID ALL THAT IT'S STILL BRILLIANT AT WHAT IT CAN ALREADY DO, AND WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS FOR IT.
    :D:D:D:D:D:D
     
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  5. by M.D.Baker
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    @Graham I didn't know there were two different hardware versions until you mentioned it. But personally, I'd just ignore that the version exists with the ESP8266 as I've not seen any mention of it in the Fujinet sub-forum and it seems most current users are using the ESP32 version of the hardware. I have a feeling the other hardware version will die off and be forgotten eventually. But I understand your preference to wait and see.

    Vintage Computer Shop also sells Fujinet 1.0 and 1.3 versions, and I've heard one or two other places as well. https://www.vintagecomputercenter.com/product/fujinet-1-3
    Vintage Computer does have a warning about problems with their version flashing on PC's, they use MACs, But I had no issue flashing the version 1.3 I got from TBA on my PC.

    Edit: I read further down on Vintage Computer Shop's site and they say they are suspending version 1.3 Fujinet due to hardware issues and suggest buying the 1.0 version. But again, I've had no issues with the one I got from TBA, so this may just be an issue with VCS's version. I guess the old adage applies; if you want something done right, do it yourself.:p
     
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  6. by nysavant
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    Looks like they are out of stock just now. Unless someone starts to sell them over here I may pick one up whenever I can get over to the States. I think Matt's summary of it has sealed the deal :)
     
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  7. by M.D.Baker
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    Well, as per my last post, don't get it from Vintage Computer shop, they are only selling 1.0 now. Wait until TBA has more in stock, as that's what I have. There are other shops, as I said, that sell Fujinet too.

    Scratch that TBA is selling version 1.0, I thought they were 1.3 for some reason, but as per @Graham 's link above, I double checked TBA and it does indeed show 1.0 on the board they have pictured. So I have version 1.0 appaerently. So, version 1.0 has been totally stable and reliable in my two weeks experience with it, and apparently 1.3 needs to be avoided. So if you want what I have, version 1.0, you can get it from Vingtage Computer Shop I linked above.
     
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  8. by nysavant
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    I'll be getting it from TBA, they seem a good source.
     
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  9. by M.D.Baker
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    Good choice, I'm sure more will be in stock soon. (I edited previous post in case you missed it)
    Version 1.0 seems to be perfectly stable and the 1.3 version introduced some problems.

    One warning I just read on TBA's site is that people with Sophia 2's and Fujinet are getting RF interference from Sophia 2, and the fix is to add RF shielding to Sophia 2. I doubt highly this will be an issue for me or other 800 users though, since the 800's shielding is basically a Faraday cage.
     
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  10. by nysavant
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    It'll be once lockdown lifts that I go for it most likely so plenty of time for a new revision or two :D.

    In the meantime I look forward to more of your posts about it Matt!
     
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  11. by M.D.Baker
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    One thing, I said I'd flashed the latest Incognito firmware for use with Fujinet and it's N: device for SDX, I meant flashed SDX on Incognito with the new Firmware, not the Incognito BIOS firmware.
     
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  12. by M.D.Baker
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    Nice to see you've joined our little photo club here too, @Graham! Looking spiffy!
    Now we have current faces to put too regulars in our little club! Though I know some of you do the video chat thing so you already knew what some others looked like. looks like we all have lack of full head of hair issues! Maybe I'll get up the courage now to show myself without a hat on...maybe...
     
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  13. by Graham
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    It's nice that SDX has been updated, and all the additional tools built in, you only need the 256K of space as well so there still room to add additional tools if required at a later date.
    FUJI NET is really going some place's, whilst adding additional fuctionality in software drives a few changes to the hardware.
    V1.3 I think that the main Idea was to cure a few oddities than can crop up under certain conditions, however other bits have been changed, hence the V1.3 revised even as late as 5 days ago.
    I've used the list of parts for the latest version and surprised at how little the cost is (this is only for the electronic parts)
    it's less than £10, and likely cheaper (but not by much) if I'd used smaller components (I need to be able to see them to solder them)
    I guess the power of a 32 bit co-prcessor in the ESP32 really makes a difference, along with it's 8Mbytes RAM & 16MB Flash ROM a bit more than the ol' Atari with its 48K & 16K
    I took a few photo's one of the chips the CP2102 used to be a QFN 28 package, 5x5mm it's now been reduced to 4x4mm 24 Pin package .. heres a picture of the original 5x5mm version with 28 pins.
    By the way there are still unused pins on the 24 pin package.
    2021-01-29 17.50.55.jpg
    I'm not looking forward to soldering in the smaller version that's the only one available ..
    Thats a Micro USB connector in front ..
    When all has settled down I'll make one up for internal fitment to my XLD, XEL & XEGS. hence no requirment for the SIO plug/socket arrangement.
    As this will be identicle electronically, and thus the same software, if anyone is interested better let me know.
    I can also off board the SD card slot and change to a full size one if people want that.
    I'm guessing by the time I've had the boards made etc. be about £20-25. I'll see how stable the hardware is first so likely 2-3 months away.
    By then I Hope Matt will be an absolute mine of information.
    Matt how about starting off a Fuji Net Blog and updating as and when you try something new ?
    Look forward to seeing more.. maybe a new thread as well, as rather off topic ...hehe
     
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  14. by Graham
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    Hi Matt
    yea took ages writing up last entry so you sneaked in .. Well I guess we are all of that age fella, and the only good thing for hair it to keep the rain off your head, well until it seeps through and runs down your neck ..
    What do you thing about a Blog / New thread ?

    P.S and Microscopes or two pairs of glasses whan needed ... especially on this small stuff hehe)
     
  15. by M.D.Baker
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    Sounds like a great idea @Graham , I'll do that blog. But I guess I'll have to get around to learning to use it with SDX and the R: and N: handlers, both of which I've never used before, even back in the day. But then Incognito has some Z: handler I've not bothered to look into either. I don't know if that's all a part of the latest SDX or if that's separate in the Incognito firmware, I'll have to learn and see.
     
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  16. by M.D.Baker
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    Yep, I have reading glasses of both 1.25 and 1.5 magnification I use when working on electronics (and reading), as well as an LED lit visor I were on top of the reading glasses that has lenses from 1.0 X to 3.5 X magnification, I use most of them, depending on how close I have to see something! And of course other lights and lamps illuminating everything as much as possible.

    20210129_150956.jpg
     
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  17. by Graham
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    Well I'm definatly going to have a Fuji Net by the summer. I did have another look at the schematics, as I'm guessing to address the issues they are trying to fix, they have sort of ripped bits off in one place and added a buch of stuff in other's One main difference is that the resistor pack to protect components on the SIO buss has gone and replaced with 74LS07 chip's these in turn have there power turned off by tiny FET's when the power switch is in the off position. the FETs are needed as the SIO would back feed the original. It's just made the diagrams posted much more difficult to read, I guess as they have been rushed out to get them online
     
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  18. by Graham
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    I've a nice counter poise lamp I got for Christmas; dimmiable & three different LED colours(varients of white) , but I also use two dimmiable torches, for really close work, or the Microscope I use has built in led lamps Still find it difficult to solder when looking elsewhere .. did your TKII board under that .
    I've thought of the LEDS built in to a visor with magnifying lens, maybe I should invest in a set to try .
    I think Matt that a Microphone and Webcam are needed..
    Make it easier to converse :):)
     
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  19. by M.D.Baker
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    Yeah, I'll get around to figuring out the microphone and webcam soon, or else just buy new ones that just work.

    Right now I'm busy continuing work on my house's interior. I just bought a new $1000 kitchen oven range this morning with induction heat stove-top. I got it on sale for $670 because it has a couple of damage dents on it, but they are on the sides which are now hidden anyway, between counter tops on both sides! Nice brushed metal trim one that matches my brushed metal refrigerator, sink, microwave, Nescafe coffee machine, toaster and other odds and ends. The kitchen is starting to look sharp! I still have to paint the walls and put in tongue and groove wood flooring though.
     
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  20. by Graham
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    That sounds great Matt, Money off and no damage to be seen a win win ..:D
     
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  21. by M.D.Baker
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    Thanks Graham. I was trying to match the laundry room appliances with the kitchen too, but I found deals on a washer-dryer set and a chest freezer that are white, a year or two ago, I couldn't pass up, so the laundry room appliances are all white. I'd had the brushed metal refrigerator already as well as one of those convection/toaster ovens the size of a full-size microwave and a full-size microwave the same style too before I purchased the laundry machines.
     
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  22. by Andy Barr
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    Yeah, we've had recent fun n games mix n matching our appliances in the run up to the kitchen install so we know where yer coming from, Matt. Always great when you finally do source some units that do match AND at a discount price - great news. Tongue and groovy, man. Am sure it will look ace when all in place.
     
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  23. by M.D.Baker
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    The thing I don't like about brushed metal appliances in the kitchen and white for the laundry is that my "laundry room" is really a laundry nook, that was once a laundry room, but I opened it up to expand the kitchen and open up the whole house through the kitchen and living room, and so the kitchen flows into a hallway that has a laundry nook just deep enough for the machines and just long enough for the pair and the chest freezer.

    There's no divider, there was, before I tore it out along with the wall on the opposite side, which I am now seriously thinking about installing at the end of the freezer, about two feet further into the kitchen area than the original dividing wall did. That will extend out the same depth from the wall as the appliances. A pantry is directly across from the chest freezer but back a few feet further from the kitchen, the freezer being at the end closest to the kitchen. But I think since they don't match the kitchen, maybe I'll also install one of those wooden slat dividing curtains on rails to open and close off the laundry from the kitchen, diagonally from the new dividing wall segment across to the wall next to the pantry door. Essentially making it into a small laundry room again with a pantry, which is just the size of a standard coat closet with a sliding door of it's own; you don't step into it.

    And currently there is no real division between the kitchen and living room either, but another dividing wall will be going in on one side the depth of the Refrigerator, and then a counter with cupboards underneath on the kitchen side and stools to sit at the counter opposite that will separate the living room and kitchen, but all open with the vaulted ceiling; we're only talking about 10" high here meeting at a peak from the 8" walls, compared to the 8" ceilings everywhere else. Right now it's just the refrigerator on one side and the wood stove in the living area on the other side that sort of separate the areas. The living area has a double-wide sliding door on the backside of the house that will eventually open to a large deck. The front wall has double windows and then to the left of them about 5-6" is the front door which is at the beginning of a hall on the other end of the house. Bed rooms and bath beyond the laundry and front door on opposite ends.
     
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  24. by Andy Barr
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    All this talk of pantries reminds me of ours, Matt.

    We went from this (which I loved for pure sentimentality and keeping with original features of the house), but it meant there was never any room to properly sort out all the pots, pans and "stuff" that seems to clog cupboards.

    upload_2021-1-30_14-39-34.png

    To this - it's a ruddy bowling alley but it ticks all Bev's boxes.

    upload_2021-1-30_14-41-31.png

    RULE ONE - Keep the missus happy.
     
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  25. by M.D.Baker
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    Very nice.I need to do what you did around your refrigerator. That looks great, instead of just a short dividing wall next to it. Is that just around the refrigerator or is that a pantry area or cupboards too on the other side of the refrigerator? Right now we have the top of the refrigerator filled with odds and ends and that would stop that bad habit and still divide the kitchen from the living room on that side.

    My cupboards and counters are in an "L" shape starting from one end where the pantry is around the corner, going to the left is a 3-4 foot counter-top with cupboards, and moving counter clock wise, next is the stove and then more counter space starting a perpendicular Counter. Cupboards all along the wall above the stove and counter to the right. Then the sink and kitchen window moving down the perpendicular counter left, then more counter space after with cupboards above and below finally the refrigerator at the end where it spills into the living room.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
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