Most liked posts in thread: Guys, there be a DRAGON in that there CAVE(!)

Hi Daz,

Here's a few more pics then to whet your appetite should you/others wish to make me an offer that makes my Dragon fly off to a new roost:

Basically, it's all ready to go with the machine, PSU (very non-standard), tape leads, UHF TV, a manual, a mag, a CD full of PDFs of more Dragon reading material, a SONY data recorder (needs a 6V PSU) plus... a STACK of software (nigh on 20 tapes) but alas no box so if you wanted the full shebang, you need to look elsewhere, but it's all in very nice working condition:









Just drop me a PM, folks, if you want to make an offer, else I'll be Feebaying it probably next week.

Cheers and enjoy your retro computing.

Next up in the Baz AWOL threads -

ORIC MICRODISC - THE BOOK, THE MOVIE (directed by Simply Graham) -
THE RESTORED POWER SUPPLY!

 

HEHE
DRAGON 32
Well I've been doing a bit of research, looked through your Video links.. And learnt a lot. The Motorola 6809 CPU I've had a search on as well, interesting little beastie... But sorry 6502 rules.. (Well that's my opinion of course ) but each to their own.
Glad you found your PC in among all the cement dust and Mud.. Good to have you back.
Hopefully Richie is now up and working with a 1050 although showed as delivered on Hermes and Richie hadn't received it ... OOOOO
Looking forward to your testing with the Microdrive, Klyde pointed to two Atmos on Lebcoin or something like that for 50 Euro each. However thought I'd hang fire until I've sorted all the backlog of bits I want to sort out.. Some of which Aren’t Atari, as have a small synthesiser to house with a converter to proper 5 Pin DIN MIDI.. not poxy USB. (But will be attached to Atari )
PokeyMAX received but never tested, XEGS BUILD. All parts now but.. Hmmm BUT ... Also Incognito for 800 same boat.
Shed. Well with help from others is gradually getting there. It’s water proof, and Pam's son's a brick and helped a lot.
And that's without any Radio based stuff, I've a stack of what would now be very expensive High gain Yagi Antenna, I used them to bounce radio signals off the Moon back to earth, (think of a TV antenna but 33ft long and 16 of them on a scaffold frame, in a 4x4 array) attachment shows a 4x2 array !!!
I need to get my head around assembler on the 6502 Atari platform. Also some old DOS/Win 3.11 computer that I've found a load of original software for, along with programs I'd written for work 25 Years ago (not as a programmer but as a one of 15 support staff responsible for the whole of the Cellnet Mobile network at the time (and the only Support Engineer!)) that's not including the one's written for Amateur Radio.
MICRODRIVE
Andy worst case worst at least you can use a 3.5" drive if it still plays up or a Gotek, and having played with a 1050 for some time I'll be doing the same mod to the voltage regulators in that as well. I've also an old ST 314 drive to convert to SIO which I can build a board for. (only bought it coz it mached the XE style case.)
I hope you didn't allow Bev to much time alone with your retro goodies and an empty skip... Glad things going well for you both ..

 

Andy already knows this but I gave a boxed Dragon 64 away as a prize in the Oric Meet back in the early 90’s. I picked it up from a local farm as the U.K. government had a “Farm Fax” incentive to help computer literacy. Farmers still have the odd Dragon in the loft so it’s always pays to ask. The 64 is really a 32 with extra bank of 32KB of RAM and not much of a improvement overall, but still very desirable.The 6809 is a really nice CPU and for me would be my top pick especially the improved model that came a bit later. The problem with the Dragon is the design spec being based on the Motorola chipset which gave it a “distinct” look the same as the Co-Co.
Shame about the 1050 PSU, hopefully will be able to test it later when my meds have kicked it, under supervision.
Very impressive radio setup Graham were you measuring the distance between the earth and moon using radio?

 

Congrats on the Dragon Andy! I looked into the beastie myself when I was deciding what other 8-bitters to collect, once I found out it was essentially a clone of the Tandy/RadioShack CoCo 2, I figured I'd go with a CoCo if I went for a 6809 machine, since it's domestic and easy to get in the states, and I think it has a larger library. But anyone can turn an Atari into a CoCo/Dragon and run an Atari port of NitrOS9 software on it with one of these puppies below:

http://www.frontiernet.net/~mmarlette/Cloud-9/Hardware/Liber809.html

I thought about it briefly, but for the same price I can get Co-Co- 2 or 3 computer!

 

That looks very interesting Matt, I am sorely tempted by that little widget

I still need to fit my 2nd POKEY to my 65XE and then stick a dual OS EPROM inside. Getting stuff from the States is getting expensive these days, when I got the Blitter from Best Electronics for my 1040STFM I was hit with some hefty import charges on top of the shipping. So $65 + shipping is a bit steep right now. The 6809 is a good CPU. If you look at Rommels Revenge on the Dragon/Co-Co compared to the Spectrum version it does really well.
When I moved to this area my new neighbour had a Dragon 32 and had never seen an Atari or C64 running he was very impressed and so not long after he got a C64 from woolies and the Dragon went in the loft. I think by that time Dragon Data were on the verge of going under so the software was drying up.

 

Yeah, @Vyper68 , I've got enough on my hardware plate with fixes and planned upgrades to worry about another yet myself.

I'm still on the 800 atm, I desoldered the old 4051 sockets, and didn't see anything stuck underneath, but of course with my PCB vice-rack, the PCB was upside down while I was desoldering and removing the sockets, so some small bit of wire or solder could have easily fallen off when I removed the socket.

Anyway, I installed new sockets and got the girl put back together, turned it on...and was welcomed with the red-screen-of-death. So I didn't get it put back together properly and still don't know if I have a working keyboard or not yet.

I just hate testing things without it all properly mounted with proper ground, etc., and after a while it's quick and easy to disassemble and re-assemble in no time anyway.

If the keyboard still isn't working once I get the red-screen sorted, I've decided to go ahead with all the upgrades I intended anyway, as they have nothing to do with the keyboard circuits and I know the POKEY and stereo upgrade is good from playing games without a keyboard. I'll go back to it after I finish what I started, with the multi-meter and following the traces testing components. Right now I'm just sick of it holding everything else back.

 

Yeah, I get your frustrations over wanting that 800 mobo fixed but done properly but share the feeling when one job is seemingly holding up everything else, Matt... it just creates a log jam and you know you'd feel a whole lot better once that red screen of death is resolved and any other issues identified and cured.

As for those shockingly anal analogue potentiometer-style joysticks - who the hell invented them, some early flight simulator geek? They want binning / sending back to hell...as you say, they haunted many a system from Dragon, through Acorn BBC right on to RS/Tandy TRSs and 1-2 other beasts too and were next to useless for anything requiring a quick, sure left/right and fire response.

On the other hand, some pretty amazing joysticks with precision control can be fashioned by users "in the know" - I dig this guy's efforts from seemingly a few pieces of craft wood and components...

 

One of the Atari books @Timothy Kline gave me has many projects for making your own controllers and other external devices for Atari's (and for controllers, if they use Atari joystick ports, then C64 and others as well). I just went looking for it on my bookshelf and was going to take a picture of one example, but it's not with the other Atari books, so now I'm trying to find it! There were a couple projects I really wanted to do in it!

 

OO So were to I start .. Number 2

M.D.Baker
Wow that was an interesting link, It still amazes me just how much delelopment goes into older retro hardware. I went all through the Clound9 Hardware page ( well I would wounld't I) going back to the rest later on ..

Sorry to hear the ongoing issues with your 800.. Not sure I'd go ahead and do the other upgrades until you have the Red Screen issue fixed. Always worried with an 800 as I don't like the fact they have -5v +12V along with the more normal +5V.

BUT I'm also very aware of the care and attention to detail you pay to adding your upgrades witnessing the pics of both your Incognito & Stereo Pokey. Hopefully going to do my 800 at some point and will be using Dupont connectors for that

.... Hmm I wonder where I copied that idea from... seriously best form of flattery ... copy ..
OO Well BBC joystick do appear pants !! but The guts can be improved on !
Best you find the Book Fella !


P.S Edit sorry miss read 'After you cured the red screen .. sorry Matt

 

Yeah the Speccy was interesting, you have one edge connector for expansion which is limiting compared to other computers. The flip side is it gives you direct access to the CPU.
I have an interface one that provides a networking connection and a RS232 port in addition to the Microdrive, did you use one of those?
Microdrive tapes are very flaky these days but my QL works more reliably than the ZX models which made me change one of my ZX Microdrives into a vDRIVEzx SD Card unit which lets you use an SD card instead and it is 100% reliable

 

Yeah, just if the keyboard still isn't working once the red screen issue is fixed, I'll go on with upgrades and come back to it later. I'm sure the red screen issue, which just popped up the last time I re-assembled it is just an error I made putting it together or one of the stock cards developing and issue. I'm going to take her apart again, and go ahead and re-install the Incognito board and I'm sure my red screen issue will disappear as long as I'm more careful re-assembling the computer. I can just as easily test the keyboard with the Incognito loading to SDX command line as I can from the memopad, I figure. Like I said before, the components have been under a lot of stress lately with the computer being dis-assembled and re-assembled multiple times and repairs and upgrades being done on the old hardware. It doesn't surprise me at all if a dram chip, or something, suddenly fails, as old as they are, or gets knocked loose in the socket.

Yes, cloud9 has gotten me excited about the Coco and the 6809 too! It has made me contemplate getting a Coco 3 before I get a C64, just for variety in CPU's. But it will probably come down to which computer I can get the best deal on when I'm ready to buy. But I'm a sucker for the underdogs, especially when they are as good or better overall, like Dragon and Coco machines(except maybe in color palettes-but the Coco 3 has 64 colors!); at least Coco 2 and 3, I would not want a Coco 1 with the chicklet keyboard, even though I like the metallic look of the case (same with the TI-99/4A model 1).

 

The Atari's PBI also give direct access to the CPU, etc. too. I don't know about Dragon, BBC, C64, Oric or Coco, etc. TI-99/4A does give direct access to the CPU, etc. on it's expansion (which I think is also known as the PBI or something very close that means the exact same thing)port as well. Yes, always a plus for any computer.

 

I just found another site for Coco upgrades here: https://boysontech.com/marketplace

I wonder if any of these could be adapted to work with the Dragon? I'm going to see if I can find a similar Dragon site(s). Or if anyone here already knows of some? Here is what appears to be a main Dragon enthusiast site: http://www.dragon64.co.uk/

EDIT: Never mind that site is unfinished and apparently was last updated in 2012.

I've found some Dragon software archives but that's about it. Not much of an active home-brew community for hardware or software like the Coco. But I found two Dragon 32's for sale on U.K. ebay for around 100 pounds. While I only found one Coco 3 on eBay for $599! Apparently they too, have skyrocketed in pricing since I checked a couple of years ago. I can get a boxed Coco 2 for $150, which would be the direct equivalent of a Dragon 32, except maybe stock ram.

Did I ever mention to anyone in the community here, that I had an opportunity to buy a Tandy Color Computer 3, with mouse, RGB monitor and controller, printer, etc. for $50? This was back in the late 90's though, and I was living with my older brother for a few months at the time though, and was saving for my own place, so I turned it down. In a small town Radio Shack, where the owner was also the mayor of the town. I used to go down there all the time to get out of my brother's house and chat with the guy.

 

https://worldofdragon.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

http://www.6809.org.uk/xroar/

 

https://colorcomputerarchive.com/

 

I've found the Schematics for the Dragon 32 & 64 plus prototypes here http://www.dragondata.co.uk/tech/index.html

I can do a comparison between the co-co and Dragon's and see if the ROM, RAM & Hardware locations map across, I do know the screen colours will not match up and likely the video chip is entirely different. BUT I'm sure with a lot of work, (~or maybe not that much) that a Dragon 32/64 could be turned into a co-co3 in the way it works and can have co-co3 addons so a
Dragon-Co-Co 2048 anyone?
This I guess would allow any software the Co-Co(3) uses to run on a Dragon base. (as it would be turned into a Co-Co3)

I've enough projects to keep me busy at the moment but the last few weeks I think I've been much better so they will start happening.
Maybe I should offer Matt a swap for a coco3 he buys for a BBC 'B' I have, maybe a much cheaper way of getting something different in the future..

I'll now check out Richie's Links he posted . Matt's already checked out

 

Here is a guy from Switzerland I think who makes mass storage solutions for the old Dragon.

http://tormod.me/udw.html

http://tormod.me/mooh.html

 

I may have to settle for a Coco 2, if $599 is a going rate for Coco 3's. When I have that kind of extra cash again to blow on a vintage micro, I'll be well on my way to save up and replace my lost Falcon. Coco 2's I've found for under $100 and boxed for $150. I'll have to look into Coco 2 upgrades.

 

I would love a Falcon but unless I win the lottery it’s never gonna happen sadly. The Co-Co always fascinated me and it’s still on my list of computers to collect. I know there was some commonality between the Dragon and Co-Co and programs could run with a small amount of conversion and I do remember some issue where a programming technique created artefacts and the PAL version didn’t show the correct colours compared to the NTSC models.
The MOOH board by tormod works on a Co-Co as well as a Dragon... impressive little device.

 

Following my brief look at circuit diagrams (and not terriably good ones) the Co-co 1&2 are very similar to the Dragon's
however although there is hugh difference from the Early co-co 1&2 to the coco3 not just a few changes but enough to call it a completely diffrent hardware design bar a few obvious sililarities... mainly the CPU !
Main chips in early co-co & Dragon's
6809 , a pair of 6821 PIO chips the same VDG chip the 6847 along with an address Mux the 6883/74LS783/74LS785 Synchronous Address Multiplexor.
The Dragon 64 added an ACIA 6551

CoCo 3 on the other hand, and I'm going from distant photos of the circuit diagram, and a video; appears so have most of the same Chips
However the GIME or Graphics Interupt and Memory something or other is not available so no upgrade path is possiable...
once this dies in a co-co 3 then scrap the computer.. Saying that someone may at some point recreate this in an FPGA similar to Pokey and GITA have been for Atari's
I've perhaps not looked that hard for it..

 

The Coco 3's new graphics, etc., is what excited me about the 3. But if they are that much, and literally dying off, and I could end up with a $600+ brick on my hands, then that all settles any interest for me. I'll get a Coco 2 and upgrade it as far as it goes, if that doesn't include graphics, so be it. There's still something about the Coco line that always intrigued me as well, even back when I was looking for something to replace my Timex/Sinclair 1000, and found the 130XE, I looked into the Coco 2 then (Coco 3 was released in '86, a year after the Atari XE line), but it was still two or three times the price of Commodore or Atari hardware in '85. Of course "Power Without The Price" was exactly what I wanted at the time, and I'm glad I ended up with Atari, regardless. etc.

But the Coco 2 also had the 6809, and at the time I was using 6502 Apple II's in Basic programming class, so I was also looking for a 6502 and Microsoft Basic, which the Atari had!

 

See this link Graham...
https://thezippsterzone.com/2019/03/27/gime-x/

 

Wow that's several hours I wont get back.
Very Very intresting site and looks like GIME replacements on the cards similar to Sophia2 for the Atari GITA

So with a GIME-X, Mega Mini MPI, and SDC and 2MByte of memory and we have that Dragon-Co-Co 2048 (now with VGA output)

 

I guess one just needs to dig the net deep enough and you can come up with upgrades for any retro machine...like the internet leads to other realities...I bet if I dig deep enough, I'll find retro-fan sites of the Mattel Aquarius and upgrades and home-brews for it! Once found on the internet, it becomes a reality in our world!

What do you guys think of my sci-fi theory? Does the Internet reach other realities, and when pulled to our side, it becomes a reality here too?

I'm off to test my "Aquarius theory"...there, I have now coined the theory...



https://archive.kontek.net/aqemu.classicgaming.gamespy.com/aqfaq2.htm

 

After reading about the GIME-X on 'Thezippsterzone' The Coco 3 is once again a possibility, one day. It reminds me of the VBXE or Sophia 2 (new GTIA modes) upgrades for the Atari's. Of course those upgrades will become a reality in my computers before I think of getting a Coco 2 or 3, or any other micro unless one falls in my lap for extra cheap. Sophia 2 for my Incognito 800, VBXE and U1Mb in one 1200XL. My current 1200XL will stay as-is but with a Rapidus upgrade. Once those and current upgrades are completed, then other micros will come to the forefront of my mind, maybe, depending on the cost and time of actual projects I want to do on my upgraded Atari's!

So many systems and never enough time or money...I may end up just sticking with my Atari's. But who knows what the future holds or if my mind changes.