Guys, there be a DRAGON in that there CAVE(!)

Yeah, just if the keyboard still isn't working once the red screen issue is fixed, I'll go on with upgrades and come back to it later. I'm sure the red screen issue, which just popped up the last time I re-assembled it is just an error I made putting it together or one of the stock cards developing and issue. I'm going to take her apart again, and go ahead and re-install the Incognito board and I'm sure my red screen issue will disappear as long as I'm more careful re-assembling the computer. I can just as easily test the keyboard with the Incognito loading to SDX command line as I can from the memopad, I figure. Like I said before, the components have been under a lot of stress lately with the computer being dis-assembled and re-assembled multiple times and repairs and upgrades being done on the old hardware. It doesn't surprise me at all if a dram chip, or something, suddenly fails, as old as they are, or gets knocked loose in the socket.

Yes, cloud9 has gotten me excited about the Coco and the 6809 too! It has made me contemplate getting a Coco 3 before I get a C64, just for variety in CPU's. But it will probably come down to which computer I can get the best deal on when I'm ready to buy. But I'm a sucker for the underdogs, especially when they are as good or better overall, like Dragon and Coco machines(except maybe in color palettes-but the Coco 3 has 64 colors!); at least Coco 2 and 3, I would not want a Coco 1 with the chicklet keyboard, even though I like the metallic look of the case (same with the TI-99/4A model 1).

 

The Atari's PBI also give direct access to the CPU, etc. too. I don't know about Dragon, BBC, C64, Oric or Coco, etc. TI-99/4A does give direct access to the CPU, etc. on it's expansion (which I think is also known as the PBI or something very close that means the exact same thing)port as well. Yes, always a plus for any computer.

 

I just found another site for Coco upgrades here: https://boysontech.com/marketplace

I wonder if any of these could be adapted to work with the Dragon? I'm going to see if I can find a similar Dragon site(s). Or if anyone here already knows of some? Here is what appears to be a main Dragon enthusiast site: http://www.dragon64.co.uk/

EDIT: Never mind that site is unfinished and apparently was last updated in 2012.

I've found some Dragon software archives but that's about it. Not much of an active home-brew community for hardware or software like the Coco. But I found two Dragon 32's for sale on U.K. ebay for around 100 pounds. While I only found one Coco 3 on eBay for $599! Apparently they too, have skyrocketed in pricing since I checked a couple of years ago. I can get a boxed Coco 2 for $150, which would be the direct equivalent of a Dragon 32, except maybe stock ram.

Did I ever mention to anyone in the community here, that I had an opportunity to buy a Tandy Color Computer 3, with mouse, RGB monitor and controller, printer, etc. for $50? This was back in the late 90's though, and I was living with my older brother for a few months at the time though, and was saving for my own place, so I turned it down. In a small town Radio Shack, where the owner was also the mayor of the town. I used to go down there all the time to get out of my brother's house and chat with the guy.

 

https://worldofdragon.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

http://www.6809.org.uk/xroar/

 

https://colorcomputerarchive.com/

 

I've found the Schematics for the Dragon 32 & 64 plus prototypes here http://www.dragondata.co.uk/tech/index.html

I can do a comparison between the co-co and Dragon's and see if the ROM, RAM & Hardware locations map across, I do know the screen colours will not match up and likely the video chip is entirely different. BUT I'm sure with a lot of work, (~or maybe not that much) that a Dragon 32/64 could be turned into a co-co3 in the way it works and can have co-co3 addons so a
Dragon-Co-Co 2048 anyone?
This I guess would allow any software the Co-Co(3) uses to run on a Dragon base. (as it would be turned into a Co-Co3)

I've enough projects to keep me busy at the moment but the last few weeks I think I've been much better so they will start happening.
Maybe I should offer Matt a swap for a coco3 he buys for a BBC 'B' I have, maybe a much cheaper way of getting something different in the future..

I'll now check out Richie's Links he posted . Matt's already checked out

 

Here is a guy from Switzerland I think who makes mass storage solutions for the old Dragon.

http://tormod.me/udw.html

http://tormod.me/mooh.html

 

I may have to settle for a Coco 2, if $599 is a going rate for Coco 3's. When I have that kind of extra cash again to blow on a vintage micro, I'll be well on my way to save up and replace my lost Falcon. Coco 2's I've found for under $100 and boxed for $150. I'll have to look into Coco 2 upgrades.

 

I would love a Falcon but unless I win the lottery it’s never gonna happen sadly. The Co-Co always fascinated me and it’s still on my list of computers to collect. I know there was some commonality between the Dragon and Co-Co and programs could run with a small amount of conversion and I do remember some issue where a programming technique created artefacts and the PAL version didn’t show the correct colours compared to the NTSC models.
The MOOH board by tormod works on a Co-Co as well as a Dragon... impressive little device.

 

Following my brief look at circuit diagrams (and not terriably good ones) the Co-co 1&2 are very similar to the Dragon's
however although there is hugh difference from the Early co-co 1&2 to the coco3 not just a few changes but enough to call it a completely diffrent hardware design bar a few obvious sililarities... mainly the CPU !
Main chips in early co-co & Dragon's
6809 , a pair of 6821 PIO chips the same VDG chip the 6847 along with an address Mux the 6883/74LS783/74LS785 Synchronous Address Multiplexor.
The Dragon 64 added an ACIA 6551

CoCo 3 on the other hand, and I'm going from distant photos of the circuit diagram, and a video; appears so have most of the same Chips
However the GIME or Graphics Interupt and Memory something or other is not available so no upgrade path is possiable...
once this dies in a co-co 3 then scrap the computer.. Saying that someone may at some point recreate this in an FPGA similar to Pokey and GITA have been for Atari's
I've perhaps not looked that hard for it..

 

The Coco 3's new graphics, etc., is what excited me about the 3. But if they are that much, and literally dying off, and I could end up with a $600+ brick on my hands, then that all settles any interest for me. I'll get a Coco 2 and upgrade it as far as it goes, if that doesn't include graphics, so be it. There's still something about the Coco line that always intrigued me as well, even back when I was looking for something to replace my Timex/Sinclair 1000, and found the 130XE, I looked into the Coco 2 then (Coco 3 was released in '86, a year after the Atari XE line), but it was still two or three times the price of Commodore or Atari hardware in '85. Of course "Power Without The Price" was exactly what I wanted at the time, and I'm glad I ended up with Atari, regardless. etc.

But the Coco 2 also had the 6809, and at the time I was using 6502 Apple II's in Basic programming class, so I was also looking for a 6502 and Microsoft Basic, which the Atari had!

 

I hear you on that one Matt

Although I've not searched high and low there may be an FPGA source for the unavailable GIME Chip.
In which case it's not so bad spending on something at $600 this is of course if you have that kind of money.
in some way it looks like the Dragon64 is a little better than the CO-CO 2 just a matter of sorting out the O.S. software and in effect having the best of both worlds. Dragon64 and Co-Co 1&2 compatibility as well.
I know the 6809 was considered as a very good 8 Bit CPU and some of the internal functionality going towards 16 bit.
Kind of the reverse of the 68000 design having 8 bits ripped off and calling it a 68008 for the QL as an example.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Radio-Sh...738218?hash=item46b2753bea:g:QFUAAOSwbHRfJ8jD

This is the only current listing on Ebay UK however a fair number from the U.S. and Canada
It wouldn't be to terrible a job to change the internal transformer to one that accepted 240V may even be able to change some strapping on the transformer.

It's something I'll not consider for some time. but who knows.

By and By I've found a way of getting the cables through to the Atari 800 PCB slots without any cutting of the Atari itself, just removing one of the bumps sticking down next to the left hand side (when looking from keyboard) of the incognito. Allows a gap above the socket right at the very end and the plastic PCB and cart guide to place all cables and a 'twisted & folded' ribbon from the 74LS42 I've only been playing as I'd taken out the guts when I received the incognito just haven’t been to bothered to do anything..

 

There’s another working Co-Co 2 on feeBay... £200 quid though

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254681184950

 

Ops what am I like missing that one... lot more money but seems in good condition and working...
Mind you I'm sure you have a Dragon 64 hiding away

 

Is relocating to Chez Farrell

 

I wish I still had my Dragon 64 ... along with my Camputers Lynx96 and MGT Sam Coupe. Sadly I sold a lot of my collection to buy a Amiga A1200 which was more important at the time. Plus so of my kit was stolen in a burglary so I was letting the other stuff go. My old Atari setup was cracking, Dual 1050’s, 800XL and a 1027 printer....

 

Hmm well there doesn’t appear to have an emoji for putting your foot in it

 

I'd guess some will be surprised at this, I must have owned an A1200, as I've found reciepts in my name at an old address, and remember using it for adding captions to fast Scan TV Transmissions required by my Amateur Radio Licence. I don't recall ever playing games etc. just a paint program of some kind remember it has king Tut's piccy on the box and used a Genlock for the rest, the upgrade was for an internal 2.5" Hard disk upgrade. Also found two Amiga Books as well.

I don’t remember when I bought it or how I sold it. Odd that. I wouldn’t mind one someday again.

 

Yes the Genlock was a good USP for Amigas I always my mate telling me that they used A1200’s to make the fx for Babylon 5. I know now it was heavily upgraded 4000’s with some top-end Video Toaster software.
I fitted a HDD to my A1200, I think it was a 70MB drive and cost £90 in ‘93 ... not cheap, but being able to boot Workbench 3.1 off a HD felt like it was instant.

 

I've no idea for mine, I suspect it was a drive I got from work and the bits I purchaed were the proper cable and mount to go inside.
I wish I remember more, but until I found the books and reciept I didn't even recall having an Amiga. least its jogged some memories now.
I found two of my TV transmitters and one reciever as well. I remember selling the power amplifier I'd built, too build one again is a small fortune as well (And thats just the exotic components)

Also found some pictures of the portable pump up mast and Generator trailer I'd help build.

 

Hi, guys.

I had no idea, when I began this thread, that it would generate so much discussion! We've had some really good observations re. the 6809 family tree and links to Tandy CoCos and heaven knows what else in terms of hardware, software, compatibility and of course 1-2 interested parties.

Sad to say we couldn't quite strike a deal for Alex Drito (postage to Switzerland often the killer blow) but Vyper Rich in the end made the Dragon in Baz's cave an offer that the Welsh Wizard simply could not refuse (half a dozen leeks and a daffodil), so having waved its wings one last time here, the beast is now all boxed and heading out the door in the morn destined for pastures and a retro cave new...

All the best, Dragon 32 - I am sure Richie will look after you - and thanks to everyone on the forum who has chipped in and joined the discussion.

I don't know about you guys, but it has felt like a journey of discovery as I knew next to nothing about these machines beforehand whereas now I recognise another familiar member of the good old 80s retro micro family.

I hope you have a fine time 'roaring away' at chez Richie's...

 

Cheers Andy, I have been after another Dragon for a while ( you remember that last time I tried ) So when you mentioned you had picked up a Dragon I was as green as the Dragons colour video output I thought I had missed out on it when I started reading this thread but it worked out okay in the end.

When it arrives I will do a write up with some pictures and video.

 

Is the first picture in the thread the actual dragon in its lair?

 

I've taken my foot out of my mouth, bar 32Kbytes of 'Dragon stuff'